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	<title>Comments on: Mixed feelings surround new bike plan: Students and other cyclists respond to UKâ€™s permit fee</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/</link>
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		<title>By: UK MOM</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-4073</link>
		<dc:creator>UK MOM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 02:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-4073</guid>
		<description>I just think Taylor and Chris need to settle this matter man style</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just think Taylor and Chris need to settle this matter man style</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-4038</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-4038</guid>
		<description>Until PTS shows us a fairly detailed plan for the money that comes from this plan, how can you say that this will go only to bicycle improvements? They haven&#039;t publicly released a detailed budget in quite a while. All they issue is number of permits sold, and percentage of budget used on particular areas (See http://www.uky.edu/Parking/about-reports-2007-2008-p4.html for more). If they really were honest and open, they would release hard, numeric data. As the track record for an open and responsible PTS is poor in the past, I only see this continuing in the future.

As I have already said, $15 won&#039;t hurt us much. It&#039;s the nickel and diming that is the problem. We pay a fee to use the Johnson Center, we pay a fee to take college specific classes, and we are paying a fee to increase the universities budget while only increasing the maximum allowed percentage a year.
It&#039;s not the $15 here. It&#039;s the $15 here, $50 there, and $3.75 there. As you have said, the small amount on each person isn&#039;t a burden, but the resulting cash flow allows specialized programs. It&#039;s not the individual fees. It&#039;s all the fees added together, and this is just the latest in the stream of fees that resemble airline prices. Sure it&#039;s only $150 to Miami, but then you add the $50 for bags over 50 lbs, $15 for a carry on, $5 for a 4 oz bag of peanuts, and you&#039;re up to way over the original price.

The University of Kentucky is committed to becoming an autocratic school by whatever means necessary, and this includes passing random fees with little interaction from the school or community. If something isn&#039;t controlled, someone will find a way to make it controlled. PTS was merely the first department to claim the money stream from bicycles. I don&#039;t believe this will help the UK students, staff or community one iota unless a detailed plan is released, and it will not happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until PTS shows us a fairly detailed plan for the money that comes from this plan, how can you say that this will go only to bicycle improvements? They haven&#8217;t publicly released a detailed budget in quite a while. All they issue is number of permits sold, and percentage of budget used on particular areas (See <a href="http://www.uky.edu/Parking/about-reports-2007-2008-p4.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.uky.edu/Parking/about-reports-2007-2008-p4.html</a> for more). If they really were honest and open, they would release hard, numeric data. As the track record for an open and responsible PTS is poor in the past, I only see this continuing in the future.</p>
<p>As I have already said, $15 won&#8217;t hurt us much. It&#8217;s the nickel and diming that is the problem. We pay a fee to use the Johnson Center, we pay a fee to take college specific classes, and we are paying a fee to increase the universities budget while only increasing the maximum allowed percentage a year.<br />
It&#8217;s not the $15 here. It&#8217;s the $15 here, $50 there, and $3.75 there. As you have said, the small amount on each person isn&#8217;t a burden, but the resulting cash flow allows specialized programs. It&#8217;s not the individual fees. It&#8217;s all the fees added together, and this is just the latest in the stream of fees that resemble airline prices. Sure it&#8217;s only $150 to Miami, but then you add the $50 for bags over 50 lbs, $15 for a carry on, $5 for a 4 oz bag of peanuts, and you&#8217;re up to way over the original price.</p>
<p>The University of Kentucky is committed to becoming an autocratic school by whatever means necessary, and this includes passing random fees with little interaction from the school or community. If something isn&#8217;t controlled, someone will find a way to make it controlled. PTS was merely the first department to claim the money stream from bicycles. I don&#8217;t believe this will help the UK students, staff or community one iota unless a detailed plan is released, and it will not happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-4026</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-4026</guid>
		<description>Chris- you really know how to make productive comments, don&#039;t you? Besides, the picture shows up automatically because of some other settings I have on my blogging account. Find something useful to say!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris- you really know how to make productive comments, don&#8217;t you? Besides, the picture shows up automatically because of some other settings I have on my blogging account. Find something useful to say!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-4023</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-4023</guid>
		<description>Taylor is a&quot;Tool&quot; of the parking nazis&#039;. Dump the picture sport!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taylor is a&#8221;Tool&#8221; of the parking nazis&#8217;. Dump the picture sport!</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-3997</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-3997</guid>
		<description>Scott - glad you asked. I don&#039;t work for PTS, but I did coordinate the bicycle cordon count and bicycle parking study last Fall, and I know Stuart Kearns quite well (he was my boss at the time). The enforcement issues certainly pose a problem in this situation, which everyone involved is aware of - but because the intent of the permits is to license bicycles as form of transportation (As opposed to toys, which most people think of them as) so as to legitimate them, rather than tax students, the enforcement isn&#039;t the most important thing in this situation. 

Also, I&#039;m not quite sure there is a &quot;student&#039;s side&quot; to this argument - there is the side of those cyclists who have been working long and hard to get this campus to take bicycles seriously, and see how this policy works to legitimate bicycling as the most viable means of transportation to and from campus, and then there are those (cyclists or not) who flew off the handle at the first sign of (not really) paying $15 to make this campus a better place. Most things in life aren&#039;t free - whether it means you have to work for it or fork over a few bucks - and this is no exception. 

I&#039;ll be the first to tell you that students shouldn&#039;t be forced to pay for bicycling improvements or sustainability initiatives (my other area of expertise and heavy involvement over the past three years). My dream world would be one in which this university could take initiative on something positive without having to have students lead the way or pay for these projects. But that comes down to the way our state government has set priorities over the years. If you want to be outraged, be outraged that our state has an incredibly regressive tax structure which has left us bankrupt after poorly thought out tax breaks to corporations that don&#039;t deliver. Be upset that our politicians (Democrats and Republicans alike) are totally incompetent. Don&#039;t be upset that for the first time in our university&#039;s history, there will be a revenue stream, generated from minimal individual inputs, that will be explicitly devoted to bicycling infrastructure improvements.

And by the way, I very much agree with your sentiment that UK often doesn&#039;t quite know what it&#039;s doing (go back and look at the things I&#039;ve written as a Kernel columnist previously) - but this is one of the few cases in which UK is doing EXACTLY the right thing for everyone involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott &#8211; glad you asked. I don&#8217;t work for PTS, but I did coordinate the bicycle cordon count and bicycle parking study last Fall, and I know Stuart Kearns quite well (he was my boss at the time). The enforcement issues certainly pose a problem in this situation, which everyone involved is aware of &#8211; but because the intent of the permits is to license bicycles as form of transportation (As opposed to toys, which most people think of them as) so as to legitimate them, rather than tax students, the enforcement isn&#8217;t the most important thing in this situation. </p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m not quite sure there is a &#8220;student&#8217;s side&#8221; to this argument &#8211; there is the side of those cyclists who have been working long and hard to get this campus to take bicycles seriously, and see how this policy works to legitimate bicycling as the most viable means of transportation to and from campus, and then there are those (cyclists or not) who flew off the handle at the first sign of (not really) paying $15 to make this campus a better place. Most things in life aren&#8217;t free &#8211; whether it means you have to work for it or fork over a few bucks &#8211; and this is no exception. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be the first to tell you that students shouldn&#8217;t be forced to pay for bicycling improvements or sustainability initiatives (my other area of expertise and heavy involvement over the past three years). My dream world would be one in which this university could take initiative on something positive without having to have students lead the way or pay for these projects. But that comes down to the way our state government has set priorities over the years. If you want to be outraged, be outraged that our state has an incredibly regressive tax structure which has left us bankrupt after poorly thought out tax breaks to corporations that don&#8217;t deliver. Be upset that our politicians (Democrats and Republicans alike) are totally incompetent. Don&#8217;t be upset that for the first time in our university&#8217;s history, there will be a revenue stream, generated from minimal individual inputs, that will be explicitly devoted to bicycling infrastructure improvements.</p>
<p>And by the way, I very much agree with your sentiment that UK often doesn&#8217;t quite know what it&#8217;s doing (go back and look at the things I&#8217;ve written as a Kernel columnist previously) &#8211; but this is one of the few cases in which UK is doing EXACTLY the right thing for everyone involved.</p>
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		<title>By: hoopandstick</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-3996</link>
		<dc:creator>hoopandstick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-3996</guid>
		<description>How much of the money made through revenue of permits would go into bike racks realistically, and how much would go into paying the personnel required to patrol the racks looking for bikes without stickers?  Sure there aren&#039;t nearly enough racks around campus.  Find another alternative rather than taxing the students once again.  Don&#039;t plant so many damn flowers that only stay in bloom a week next year.  Don&#039;t hire so many grounds people to drive around doing close to nothing.  It is naive to think UK will add bike lanes with the money generated from this proposal.  It is also naive to think, as Scott says in the article, that classes would be required for people to aqcuire the permit.  These things just won&#039;t happen because they aren&#039;t cost effective means of running a business, which is what UK is first and foremost (maybe third or fourth is it an educational institution).  Why else would Lee Tood be the president?  An ex- GE businessman and a non-phD/ academic.  Look UK.  We are sick of paying you to cheat us and belittle us.  I&#039;m leaving.  This is the final straw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much of the money made through revenue of permits would go into bike racks realistically, and how much would go into paying the personnel required to patrol the racks looking for bikes without stickers?  Sure there aren&#8217;t nearly enough racks around campus.  Find another alternative rather than taxing the students once again.  Don&#8217;t plant so many damn flowers that only stay in bloom a week next year.  Don&#8217;t hire so many grounds people to drive around doing close to nothing.  It is naive to think UK will add bike lanes with the money generated from this proposal.  It is also naive to think, as Scott says in the article, that classes would be required for people to aqcuire the permit.  These things just won&#8217;t happen because they aren&#8217;t cost effective means of running a business, which is what UK is first and foremost (maybe third or fourth is it an educational institution).  Why else would Lee Tood be the president?  An ex- GE businessman and a non-phD/ academic.  Look UK.  We are sick of paying you to cheat us and belittle us.  I&#8217;m leaving.  This is the final straw.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-3995</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-3995</guid>
		<description>Taylor - Do you work for PTS? Are you just trying not to see the student&#039;s side of the arguement?
If the bikes are not getting impounded without a permit, then why have the permit at all? It makes more sense to just ignore PTS and park without it.
The roads around campus (the ones UK has power over), all seem to be pretty good about having decent bike lanes. The roads that don&#039;t have them don&#039;t have the space unless we want cars rolling right next to buildings. I don&#039;t know if I&#039;m willing to sacrifice green space and sidewalks just to have more blacktop. I&#039;m sorry that your partner got hit while riding the bicycle, but having more bicycle lanes on different streets isn&#039;t going to change that. The only thing that will change that is an positive attitude adjustment toward bicyclists on the part of the drivers, and a bit of patience in our immediate gratification world.
The university doesn&#039;t need to be our guardian. If our bikes get stolen, the university already having our registration numbers isn&#039;t going to help getting the bike back. If we (students) aren&#039;t responsible enough to write down our own number instead of having Big Brother look after us, then maybe life might be tough when our bike gets stolen, but it won&#039;t happen again. UK is supposed to help facilitate our transition to adulthood, and being a money-grubbing, illogically thinking, and ignorantly leading institution will instead show us how not to behave.

UK might be 144 years old but it acts like a teenager quite a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taylor &#8211; Do you work for PTS? Are you just trying not to see the student&#8217;s side of the arguement?<br />
If the bikes are not getting impounded without a permit, then why have the permit at all? It makes more sense to just ignore PTS and park without it.<br />
The roads around campus (the ones UK has power over), all seem to be pretty good about having decent bike lanes. The roads that don&#8217;t have them don&#8217;t have the space unless we want cars rolling right next to buildings. I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;m willing to sacrifice green space and sidewalks just to have more blacktop. I&#8217;m sorry that your partner got hit while riding the bicycle, but having more bicycle lanes on different streets isn&#8217;t going to change that. The only thing that will change that is an positive attitude adjustment toward bicyclists on the part of the drivers, and a bit of patience in our immediate gratification world.<br />
The university doesn&#8217;t need to be our guardian. If our bikes get stolen, the university already having our registration numbers isn&#8217;t going to help getting the bike back. If we (students) aren&#8217;t responsible enough to write down our own number instead of having Big Brother look after us, then maybe life might be tough when our bike gets stolen, but it won&#8217;t happen again. UK is supposed to help facilitate our transition to adulthood, and being a money-grubbing, illogically thinking, and ignorantly leading institution will instead show us how not to behave.</p>
<p>UK might be 144 years old but it acts like a teenager quite a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Miller</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-3990</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 23:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-3990</guid>
		<description>&#039;&#039;If it moves, tax it.&#039;&#039; ... The Man</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221;If it moves, tax it.&#8221; &#8230; The Man</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-3986</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 22:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-3986</guid>
		<description>Giving Tree - NO. The only way cyclists will have their bikes impounded is if they are already in violation of a policy that would warrant their bike getting impounded. If their lock gets cut and they don&#039;t have a permit, their penalty will be increased. But bikes will not be impounded or ticketed simply for not having a permit. Anyone that says otherwise is feeding nonsense in an attempt to create hysteria.

Michael - you&#039;re right, a few thousand dollars won&#039;t widen the roads. But all money has to come from somewhere, so as the permit fees accumulate money over the coming years, there will certainly be enough to start striping bike lanes on streets that don&#039;t already have them. The streets with bike lanes or that feed onto streets with bike lanes get well over double the bike traffic of every other entry point on campus - and the campus bike study backs that up. Also, I fail to see how the principle of registering bikes as a theft deterrent and opportunity for education, while simultaneously paying for bike facilities, is a big deal (in the negative sense). And while it&#039;s not about the price, why continue to evoke the notion that UK is trying to &#039;take away the one option that is free&#039;? You&#039;re arguing against yourself there. 

Try telling the ridiculously large number of students, faculty and staff who have been hit by cars or have been doored on the UK campus due to a combination of insufficient facilities, road hazards and crazy drivers that the conditions aren&#039;t bad. My partner has been hit twice on her bicycle within the confines on the UK campus. If you like being treated as if bicycling isn&#039;t a viable form of transportation, be my guest - but we&#039;ll go ahead and be joining the likes of University of Wisconsin as one of the country&#039;s best campuses for bicycling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giving Tree &#8211; NO. The only way cyclists will have their bikes impounded is if they are already in violation of a policy that would warrant their bike getting impounded. If their lock gets cut and they don&#8217;t have a permit, their penalty will be increased. But bikes will not be impounded or ticketed simply for not having a permit. Anyone that says otherwise is feeding nonsense in an attempt to create hysteria.</p>
<p>Michael &#8211; you&#8217;re right, a few thousand dollars won&#8217;t widen the roads. But all money has to come from somewhere, so as the permit fees accumulate money over the coming years, there will certainly be enough to start striping bike lanes on streets that don&#8217;t already have them. The streets with bike lanes or that feed onto streets with bike lanes get well over double the bike traffic of every other entry point on campus &#8211; and the campus bike study backs that up. Also, I fail to see how the principle of registering bikes as a theft deterrent and opportunity for education, while simultaneously paying for bike facilities, is a big deal (in the negative sense). And while it&#8217;s not about the price, why continue to evoke the notion that UK is trying to &#8216;take away the one option that is free&#8217;? You&#8217;re arguing against yourself there. </p>
<p>Try telling the ridiculously large number of students, faculty and staff who have been hit by cars or have been doored on the UK campus due to a combination of insufficient facilities, road hazards and crazy drivers that the conditions aren&#8217;t bad. My partner has been hit twice on her bicycle within the confines on the UK campus. If you like being treated as if bicycling isn&#8217;t a viable form of transportation, be my guest &#8211; but we&#8217;ll go ahead and be joining the likes of University of Wisconsin as one of the country&#8217;s best campuses for bicycling.</p>
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		<title>By: Giving Tree</title>
		<link>http://kykernel.com/2009/04/08/mixed-feelings-surround-new-bike-plan-students-and-other-cyclists-respond-to-uk%e2%80%99s-permit-fee/comment-page-1/#comment-3982</link>
		<dc:creator>Giving Tree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 21:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kykernel.com/?p=15309#comment-3982</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still interested in knowing:

Is Parking &amp; Transportation going to confiscate the bikes of Lexington community visitors?   Cut bike chains that will have to be replaced and impound fees too no doubt?  &quot;Tickets&quot; for unregistered bikes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still interested in knowing:</p>
<p>Is Parking &amp; Transportation going to confiscate the bikes of Lexington community visitors?   Cut bike chains that will have to be replaced and impound fees too no doubt?  &#8220;Tickets&#8221; for unregistered bikes?</p>
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